The original is in the Black text & refuted material is in  Colour. & SOME PARTS ARE IN UPPER CASE - BUT NOT ALL.

Some notes and comments on various Biblical texts some have used to promote the doctrine of the Trinity. The main approach that will be used to arrive at a proper balanced view of these texts is based on the FACT that the Bible interprets itself.

"And I will pour out upon the house of David and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem the spirit of  favour and entreaties, and they will certainly look to the One whom they pierced through, and they  will certainly wail over Him as in the wailing over an only [son]; and there will be a bitter  lamentation over him as when there is bitter lamentation over the firstborn [son]."

Some say, due to various translations of this verse, that here in Zechariah, it is Jehovah whom is pierced, for the King James, says "they shall look upon me whom they have pierced…" Then in John 19:37 it is Jesus who is pierced. Thus, they again claim, that Jesus is Jehovah.

BEFORE WE GO - AGAIN I WILL POINT OUT THAT THE WORD OF GOD MAKES STATEMENTS & NOT SOME MAN.  IN THIS PASSAGE IT IS GOD / JEHOVAH WHO IS DOING THE SPEAKING.

I did more research on Zechariah 12:10 I found something interesting.

 This is what I found in Tanakh & with the literal translation -

 As WE look at the above Hebrew and English translation and then compare it to KJV Bible WE find that the English follows exactly as it is in the KJV Bible i.e..

 And "I" will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of  Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and supplications: and they shall look UPON "ME" WHOM THEY HAVE PIERCED, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

 PLEASE NOTE THAT IT IS  LORD SPEAKING & THAT "HE" WILL SAVE THE  JERUSALEM & THAT IT IS "HE" WHO WILL BE PIERCED THROUGH. AGAIN WE ASK – WHY IS THE AUTHOR

DENYING THE WORDS OF THE LORD? (please read the entire passage starting at verse 6 & ending at verse 14)

 OBVIOUSLY – THE REASON IS – THAT THIS VERSE does not agree with his reasoning & NWT translation.

JUST TO SHOW YOU THAT THERE ARE OTHER MAJOR BIBLES THAT RENDER THE PASSAGE AS KJV - I WILL CITE NIV & LIFE APPLICATION BIBLES ALSO.

 NIV STUDY BIBLE: "AND I WILL POUR OUT ON THE HOUSE OF DAVID AND THE INHABITANTS OF JERUSALEM A SPIRIT OF SUPPLICATION. THEY WILL LOOK ON ME, THE ONE THEY HAVE PIERCED, AND THEY WILL MOURN FOR HIM AS ONE MOURNS FOR AN ONLY CHILD, AND GRIEVE BITTERLY FOR HIM AS ONE GRIEVES FOR A FIRST BORN SON."

THE LIFE APPLICATION STUDY BIBLE:

"THEN I WILL POUR OUT A SPIRIT OF GRACE AND PRAYER ON THE FAMILY OF DAVID AND ON ALL PEOPLE OF JERUSALEM. THEY WILL LOOK ON ME WHOM THEY HAVE PIERCED AND MOURN FOR HIM AS FOR AN ONLY SON. THEY WILL GRIEVE BITTERLY FOR HIM AS FOR A FIRST BORN SON WHO HAS DIED."

AS YOU CAN SEE FROM THE ABOVE CITATIONS - THAT THEY ALL AGREE WITH ONE ANOTHER - YET NWT HAS AGAIN ALTERED THE MEANING OF GODS OWN WORDS.

REVELATION 22: 18-19 WARNS US AGAINST THIS PRACTICE.

 Firstly, John 4:24 says of God: "God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth."
Thus, God cannot be literally pierced because God is a spirit.

NOW THE AUTHOR IS SAYING THAT IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR LORD TO BECOME HUMAN FLESH WHICH HE TOLD US (IN GEN. 3:15) THAT IT WOULD HAPPEN. PLEASE SEE OUR PAGE ON JESUS HUMANITY FOR MORE INFORMATION.

THERE ARE OTHER PASSAGES IN THE BIBLE THAT SAY THAT JESUS WAS GOD = JOHN 1: 1 - PHILIPPIANS 2:6 -  TITUS 2:13

JOHN 1:18 GOES LIKE THIS "NO ONE HAS SEEN GOD, BUT GOD THE ONE AND ONLY, WHO IS AT FATHER'S SIDE, HAS MADE HIM KNOWN. NIV

LIFE APPLICATION BIBLE: " NO ONE HAS EVER SEEN GOD. BUT HIS ONLY SON, WHO IS HIMSELF GOD, IS NEAR TO THE FATHER'S HEART; HE HAS TOLD US ABOUT HIM."

NWT HAS IT LIKE THIS: "NO MAN HAS SEEN GOD AT ANY TIME; THE ONLY - BEGOTTEN god WHO IS IN THE BOSOM [position]
WITH THE FATHER IS THE ONE THAT HAS EXPLAINED HIM."

AS YOU CAN SEE - EVEN NWT TELLS US THAT "NO ONE" HAS SEEN GOD EXCEPT FOR  HIS SON JESUS.

AS USUAL - THEY USE THE WORD 'god' & NOT "GOD" AS THE OTHER 2 BIBLES DO.

ALL 3 BIBLES TELL US THAT IT IS JESUS WHO "EXPLAINED" OR TOLD US ABOUT HIS FATHER.

WHEN WE TAKE THIS IN TO CONSIDERATION OF THE OT. TEXT = THEN IT IS JESUS WHO APPEARED TO ABRAHAM - & NOT HIS FATHER.

SO I WILL ASK YOU - WHY IS IT SO HARD TO ACCEPT GODS TRUTH??  WHY DO SO MANY BELIEVE WHAT MAN SAY & NOT WHAT GOD SAYS HIMSELF?

WHO ARE YOU GOING TO BELIEVE - MAN OR GOD??

IT IS UP TO YOU & NO ONE ELSE - OK!!  ONLY YOU CAN CHOOSE & MAKE THAT DECISION.

JOHN’S PASSAGE IS REFERRING TO "US" HUMANS BEING BORN AGAIN – THAT IS BORN OF THE SPIRIT – (see also John 3:3-7; 1 John 5:1; Galatians 4: 5-7. Romans 8: 1-16). John 4:24 has nothing to do with Zechariah passage. Zec. 12:10 should be compared to Ps. 22:16-17; Isaiah 32:15; Joel 2"28-29; John 19: 34-37; Rev. 1:7

 Secondly lets look a bit closer at the text. In both the King James and the NWT cited above, the text goes on to say that "…..they will certainly wail over HIM." Here we see that it is speaking not literally of Jehovah being pierced in the text, but rather someone else that is refer red to as "him." Who is this "him"?

 NOT SO – THIS VERSE TELLS US THAT THEY (PEOPLE WHO PIERCED HIM) WILL MOURN FOR HIM WHO THEY PIERCED.

WOULD YOU PLEASE RE READ THE VERSES AGAIN & SEE THAT IT IS JEHOVAH WHO IS SPEAKING &  HE SAYS THAT IT WILL BE HE WHO PEOPLE WILL LOOK ON & IT IS JEHOVAH WHO WILL BE PIERCED.

 Let's take a look at the King James translation at this verse which reads: "..they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."
 Lets take this apart section by section:

First: "..they shall look upon me whom they have pierced" Here we see" They look to "me" whom they pierced."

NOT SO THEY LOOKED AT ME AND NOT  ‘TO’ ME.  Who was pierced? This has to refer to Jesus for Jehovah was never literally pierced, (in addition, God is a spirit, not a man John 4:24; Numbers 23:19) and besides, John 19:34 & 37 tell us that it was Jesus who was pierced.

NOT ALL TRUE - - WE HAVE TO ASK OURSELVES THIS QUESTION WHEN DISSECTING A PHRASE "WHO" IS SPEAKING?     IT IS "Jehovah" who is speaking.

 "WHAT" WILL HAPPEN TO HIM? "HE" WILL BE "PIERCED"

 ALSO REMEMBER THAT NO ONE HAS SEEN NOR HEARD THE FATHER JOHN 1:18 &  6:46 –

THEREFORE IT CAN ONLY BE JESUS WHO IS SPEAKING & WHO "NWT" CALLS "JEHOVAH". AS IT IS JESUS WHO EXPLAINED HIS FATHER TO US.

 But still, there are those that argue,"…it WAS Jehovah that was pierced, for Jesus was Jehovah."

DEAR READERS WE DO NOT ARGUE – WE JUST POINT TO GRAMMATICAL CONTEXT OF  INTERPRETATION

Well, if this is true, then we have a major problem with the rest of the verse.

Not at all – Just because  IT DOES NOT AGREE WITH our TEACHINGS.  GOD DOES KNOW WHO HE IS - HE DOESN'T NEED US TO TELL HIM THAT!

Let's see why: Next the verse says : "and they shall mourn for him," Notice: If the "me" is correct, and it Is Jehovah, then why does the text "change" to the word "HIM?" They will mourn for HIM, not ME. This is because two individuals are being spoken of.

BECAUSE THE SPEAKER IS TELLING US IN THE "FUTURE TENSE" WHAT THEY WILL DO. JESUS’ COMING WAS A LONG WAY OFF WHEN HE  UTTERED THESE WORDS. THEREFORE  JESUS  SPEAKS IN FUTURE TENSE – FOR IT IS IN THE FUTURE THAT THEY WILL MOURN FOR HIM.  IT WAS BETWEEN 480 AND 520 BC THAT THE LORD UTTERED THESE WORDS. DEFINITELY THE LORD WAS SPEAKING IN FUTURE TENSE.

 JESUS COULD HAVE SAID THEY WILL MOURN FOR ME - BUT AS HE WANTED TO PAINT A BIGGER PICTURE - NOT JUST FOR THE PEOPLE WHO WERE THERE THAT DAY WHEN HE WAS PIERCED. HE ALSO WANTED TO TELL US NOW & IN THE FUTURE - THAT WE WILL MOURN HIS DEATH ON THE CROSS.

GODS WORD IS FULL OF LOCKS - THAT IS HIDDEN MESSAGES & GOD WANTS US TO SEARCH OUT THE KEYS. IF EVERYTHING WAS SO SIMPLE THEN IT WOULD BE AS MUCH FUN IN STUDYING THE BIBLE.

LIKE - WHY DID ABRAHAM STAY IN UR & HE DIDN'T GO ALL THE WAY TO THE PROMISED LAND?

THE ANSWER IS FOUND IN NEW TESTAMENT & NOT IN THE ORIGINAL STORY.

WHY WAS RAHAB SAVED?  THE ANSWER IS FOUND IN NT AGAIN - ETC. THIS IS SO MUCH FUN WHEN WE ALLOW THE HOLY SPIRIT TO LEAD US & TEACH US.

Lets look closely to see this: Next, we read in the verse: "as one mourneth for his only son," Here we see it uses the word "him" referring to someone's only son.

THIS IS A PARABLE & ILLUSTRATION TO PEOPLE – HOW A PARENT MOURNS FOR HIS CHILD – SO SHALL THEY MOURN – IN EXACTLY THE SAME MANNER – FOR THE DEATH OF JESUS.

 ALSO - IN JEWISH TIME OF OT. - THE FIRST BORN SON - WAS THE ONE WHO INHERITED THE FAMILY ESTATE AFTER HIS FATHERS DEATH.

THEREFORE - THE FIRST BORN SON WAS SUCH A BIG THING & IF THIS FIRST BORN SON DIED - THERE IS A REALLY BIG LOSS
FOR THE FAMILY. THE FIRST BORN SON - HAD TO LOOK AFTER HIS MOTHER - HIS BROTHERS & SISTERS ETC.  SO IT IS A
REALLY BIG LOSS FOR FAMILY WHEN THE FIRST BORN SON DIED. = NOT FIRST BORN CHILD BUT FIRST BORN SON.

THE FIRST BORN CHILD COULD BE A DAUGHTER - OK - THAT IS THE HIDDEN MESSAGE HERE ALSO.

Who could this be? John 1:14 tell us that "Jesus is the only begotten Son of a Father." Thus the one to whom they look, is someone's ONLY Son. This clearly shows then, that the one who was pierced was the SON of someone. Jesus was pierced, and Jesus was the son of the Father. (2 John 3) Now trinitarians are not going to attempt to argue that Jesus WAS the Father are they? NOPE!!

HERE THE AUTHOR CHANGES THE CONTEXT OF THE PASSAGE – AGAIN – LORD WAS TEACHING HIS PEOPLE & HE WAS GIVING THEM AN ILLUSTRATION HOW THEY WILL MOURN FOR JESUS – JUST AS IF IT WAS THEIR OWN SON WHO WAS PIERCED.

"CONTEXT" OF THE PASSAGE IS SO IMPORTANT AGAIN.

 ALSO - THEY WILL MOURN FOR THEIR ONLY SON - IMAGINE THIS PICTURE - YOU HAVE A ESTATE TO PASS ON TO YOUR ONLY CHILD - WHO IS YOUR SON. AS THE ESTATE COULD ONLY BE PASSED ON TO HIM & HE DIES - THEN WHO WILL INHERIT YOUR ESTATE??

IT GOES TO YOUR FAMILY MEMBER LIKE BROTHER ETC {I AM REFERRING HERE TO WHAT HAPPENED IN JEWISH TIME OF ZECHARIAHS TIME] = THERE WAS SUCH A BIG LOSS FOR YOU - NO ONE TO CARRY ON YOUR NAME & ALL THAT YOU WORKED SO HARD FOR - GONE TO SOMEONE ELSE.

NOT A PRETTY PICTURE HEY??

 Then the verse says "and shall be in bitterness for him," Yes, they are in bitterness for "him" This is the son that they wail over, or are in bitterness over.

YES – JUST AS THEY WOULD BE IN BITTERNESS FOR THEIR "OWN" CHILD – SO SHALL THEY BE IN BITTERNESS FOR JESUS’ DEATH.

 Then the text says "as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn." Here we see that they are in bitterness for "his" firstborn. So then the bitterness is for the firstborn of the Father. The one who was pierced, who was Jesus Christ, was indeed the Son OF the Father! (2 John 3)

NOT AT ALL – THE "FIRST BORN" HERE REFERS TO RANK OF THE FAMILIES FIRST BORN SON. THE FIRST-BORN SON IN JEWISH HISTORY WAS THE ONE WHO CARRIED THE FAMILY ONCE THE FATHER PASSED AWAY.

THEREFORE THEY WILL BE BITTER ABOUT JESUS’ DEATH JUST AS THEY WILL BE IN BITTERNESS IF THEIR OWN FIRST BORN SON HAD DIED.

PLEASE READ THE "CONTEXT" & HISTORICAL FACTS & NOT PRESENT DAY LIES & MAN’S OWN "ALLUSIONS".

Yes, Jesus is the Son of the Father. The Father is Jehovah, his God. [SO TRUE] -This is clearly shown by comparing John 20:17 which reads: " Jesus said to her: "Stop clinging to me. For I have not yet ascended to the Father. But be on your way to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and YOUR Father and to my God and YOUR God.’"

THIS PASSAGE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ZECHARIAH PASSAGE –

BUT IT TELLS US THAT "JESUS" HAS NOT YET PRESENTED HIMSELF TO HIS FATHER – STRAIGHT AFTER THE RESURRECTION.

 THIS IS COMPLETELY TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT – SO TO "MAKE" IT FIT IN TO THE AUTHORS POINT OF VIEW.

YES – FATHER IN HEAVEN IS JESUS’ FATHER – BUT WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH "WHO" IS SPEAKING IN ZECHARIAH 12:10 PASSAGE?  NOTHING – THAT’S WHAT.

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING - THAT'S WHAT!!

To Micah 5:4 which reads: "And he (Jesus) will certainly stand and do shepherding in the strength of Jehovah, in the superiority
of the name of Jehovah his God. And they will certainly keep dwelling, for now he will be great as far as the ends of the earth."

THIS PASSAGE IS TELLING US ABOUT JESUS’ BIRTH PLACE & HOW HE WILL TEACH & RULE WITH THE AUTHORITY AS LORD GOD HIS FATHER.

AGAIN IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SUBJECT AT HAND!!

 In John 20:17, Jesus says that his God and Father is the God and Father of Mary. Micah 5:4 shows that it is Jehovah who is the God of Jesus. Thus it is Jehovah who is the Father of Jesus.

 YES – BUT THE PASSAGE "MUST" BE UNDERSTOOD IN THE CONTEXT THAT IT WAS WRITTEN.

 HERE JESUS’ IS SHOWING "UTMOST RESPECT FOR HIS FATHER, UNLIKE CHILDREN OF TODAY.

 JESUS DOES EVERYTHING JUST AS HIS FATHER ASKS & NOT MORE NOR LESS THEN THAT. SO WHEN JESUS CALLS HIS FATHER & GOD – HE IS SHOWING "RESPECT" TO HIS FATHER.

 THIS DOES NOT MAKE HIM ANY LESS "GOD" –

WHEN DID "SHOWING RESPECT" TO MY FATHER MAKE ME "LESS HUMAN" THEN MY FATHER? NEVER RIGHT.

 SAME APPLIES TO JESUS!!!

Please see Isaiah 64:8 which says: "And now, O Jehovah, you are our Father. We are the clay, and you are our Potter; and all of us are the work of your hand."

Yes it is plain, Jehovah is the Father. And it was Jesus, who was the only begotten son of the Father that was pierced, not literally Jehovah himself. This is the obvious reading of the text.

WE HAVE SHOWN THAT IT WAS LORD SPEAKING & IT WAS HE WHO WAS PIERCED. ALSO WE KEEP POINTING OUT THAT NO ONE HAS SEEN NOR HEARD THE FATHER. (John 1:18 & 6:46) which means that it was Jesus who was speaking in Zechariah passage.